QUESTION : why the old and new chat is not connected.
Basically, incompatible technology :(
Old UI is practically 10 years old. There was no chrome, there was just Internet Explorer 6 and 7. New chat, in order to provide the functionality that it did, relies on new technology and integrates deeply into our framework. In order to bring it into the old UI, we would need to bring 50% of our new UI code to old UI. Because old UI is a stateless architecture - page load on each action - doing so would increase the load time for each page load greatly, to completely unacceptable levels.
Syncing the chat, while theoretically possible, is a huge amount of work, and we are not sure if it could even be accomplish without putting too large of a load on the server.
QUESTION: New UI is good except that timing of attacks is not correct. There is a +- 7 seconds error.
This is very strange. The new UI is / SHOULD BE way more accurate. In fact, the new UI is accurate to milliseconds. old one is not. If you are experiencing such an issue, please do help us find the cause! if you could perhaps record a video? or give steps to reproduce? that woudl be great!
This should NOT be happening.
We did have an issue, that the longer you kept the UI opened, the time got out of sync; this was fixed and should not be happening.
The new chat cannot be put in frame, and the two chats cannot be synced. Nor can we roll back one of the most asked for features (group chat, chat notification etc).
However, to be clear, the new chat IS accessible from the old UI. You can play with the old UI and new chat via Throne Room like so:
Of course, players pointed out things that they did not like in the new chat (like defaulting to global not clan chat etc), and we are actively working on fixing many of those. In fact, last wednesday release already delivered some of those fixes.
It did not help that the chat caused almost 2 days of lag and was failing for some people, but once players started to experiment with some of the new powerful features like group chats and notification, we got a lot of positive feedback. Here are some of the positive comments we got, about the new chat, right from the chat:
QUESTION: Why does the old UI not have the new new Chat
As I explained in the very first question, due to technical issues, we cannot embed, that is, put a chat box, right in where the old chat was. However, the old chat, always had the ability to pop out of the main page like so :
The new chat cannot be put in frame, and the two chats cannot be synced. Nor can we roll back one of the most asked for features (group chat, chat notification etc).
However, to be clear, the new chat IS accessible from the old UI. You can play with the old UI and new chat via Throne Room like so:
QUESTION: No one likes the new chat, so why have it
As with any release, we did hear players were not happy with a different way of doing things, however, the new chat, especially once you experience the power of it, has been well received by most.Of course, players pointed out things that they did not like in the new chat (like defaulting to global not clan chat etc), and we are actively working on fixing many of those. In fact, last wednesday release already delivered some of those fixes.
It did not help that the chat caused almost 2 days of lag and was failing for some people, but once players started to experiment with some of the new powerful features like group chats and notification, we got a lot of positive feedback. Here are some of the positive comments we got, about the new chat, right from the chat:
- fancy new chat is fancy! :p
- Interesting new chat service
- Wow, new chat is good...provided you dont get them mixed up.
- his new chat will be good for you. It takes single line responses and groups them all together. ;)
- Sleek new chat box.
- new chat, woah
- i like this shiny new chat
- I like the new chat @=@
- I like this new chat now
- The devs are working on the glitches in this new chat!
- Hey guys - since this new chat allows us to create group chats I made this one for village claims for just our area
- New chat will be great once they sorted glitches
- wow new chat :D
- Testing out the new chat function here, and see if this helps coordinate any attack we may have.
- I like this new chat. Once forum is tied to it again it'll be a good change. I need to tinker with custom chats
- this new chat thing is great
- you can setup chat groups for ops which is useful with new chat
Yes we understand that but why change it if you knew that it wouldnt work on both old and new ui like the previous chat which had nothing wrong with it
ReplyDeleteOld chat was missing lots of features requested by many players so it was "broken" in the eyes of many. We did it, because you can still use the new chat; It is a simple matter of having throne room open and voila, you got access to chat. This seemed to us like an good compromise to get new features AND allow you to use the old UI
DeleteI see your point and i play on new UI only and i only use the old ui chat because i cant see what those who are old ui players only are saying.
DeleteAs for the "chat being broken in the eyes of many" im afraid i dont see too much evidence of people that are saying the chat is better now in realms.
If anything take a look at the realm chats and its probably all bad about the update or there is very little chat at all.
I could be wrong but we will never know without everyone having a say,which is a problem unless you run a poll or a vote
Most people I know do not like the new UI. Sooo what is the point, if we don't play anymore
ReplyDeletevast majority of people play on the new UI, so it is very much relevant. However, we do understand that there are groups that prefer the old UI which is why it is active. All you need to do, is open another window with throne room to access the new chat
DeleteThe main issue here is the fact you are almost forcing players to choose new ui over old ui. I have been playing for 7 years and have had more success w/ the old ui than I have w/ the new ui. You have said the new ui should be better, yet many people are having issues w/ it working properly.
ReplyDeleteThe players like me who have been around long term playing RoE are seeing only improvements in new ui and new players only being aloud to us the new ui. Not even having the opportunity using the old ui. If there are issues w/ improvements being made in new ui, not being able to be used in old ui then this is in fact pushing long time players to use the new ui exclusively. (EX: Servant rescue, chat improvements, so on)
What we as player would like to see is this not happening. People not forcefully being pushed into using something they do not like. And also not forcing new player to only be aloud to use the new ui. They should have an option, just same as us old players.
There is so much more needing to be said. But so hard to put it into words. Main issue is, the new ui, is being pushed down people throats.
There are long term players like myself quitting and threatening to quit over changes that are forcing people to use the new ui more often. If you are a business and wish to continue to have your long time users still interested. Then you may want to consider this. And yes, majority of every one I know HATES the new UI and sees it as not worth using.
DeleteYes, as we always said, new features, that can reasonable be accessed via the new UI, will not be added to the old UI. We believe it is reasonable to jump into the new UI to claim rescued servants once a day. We believe it is reasonable to open throne room to gain access to new chat. And yes, new players will not gain access to old UI, because we've done lots of test that clearly show new players prefer the new UI. If the new UI was not here, there would probably not be many new players to play with; player players expect a modern looking UI, nothing we can do about that
DeleteIf you are having issues with the new UI, we would LOVE to hear from you guys! Do tell us WHAT is missing. WHAT is broken. Give us a chance to fix it
DeleteIts not missing anything. Some of us just dont care for it period. Not to hard to get at this point. Continue to do what you want w/ new ui. Just dont mess up the old ui as you do so. Maybe give new players the choice between both ui's. Why be counter productive?
DeleteWe cannot give new players a choice as this would be too confusing to them. To players who are used to it, we do. We are not planning to "mess with it" but in case where we do deliver a new chat, it cannot be helped. Again, opening a throne room tab seems reasonable compromise to us at least
DeleteAgree with Wandering!
ReplyDeleteI play the old, and have trouble teaching new players the basic gameplay, because they only play the new UI.
So I feel like I have to change, or retire.
I have multiple people saying they are tired of the changes too Loke. And they are all feeling the same, that they are going to have to abandon a game they do love because people dont care to hear what they have to say.
DeleteSorry Loke, you are right, new UI is where the game is moving... I am sorry, I dont know what to say. The old UI is just that - it is an old version that players who are used to it, can choose to play. It is not a UI that we will be showing to new players as our numbers are very clear - new players prefer the new UI.
DeleteCan I ask when you did testing to see if new users would have access to old ui and new ui that they would not use the old one over the new one?? I know many newer players and in realms where people who have been playing long term could not join, I never heard of this option being available to the people who were aloud in them.
DeleteWe track many things such are retention etc that gives us a lot of insight, which doubled since the release of the new UI. We also track who uses what features and, while vets like you guys, love tags, 95% of people never use them, find them confusing etc - which is why they are not in hte new UI for so long as we try to figure out a simplified way of introducing them
DeleteI am also a long time player and will definitely be looking elsewhere for my entertainment if you get rid of old ui . It is awkward to use especially on a computer without touch screen .WE have been discussing this in clan chat on skype and not a single one of the members came out in support of new ui and most have said they would quit the game
ReplyDeleteGary is right, I am in this chat room on skype. There are 20+ people feeling this way!
DeleteGary, the new UI is NOT touch screen based. the MOBILE UI is. But if you play on desktop, it is not. Perhaps you should give it a try if you did not for a while. Ensure to enable compact UI mode under tools to get a more of a D1 functionality.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeletePosted wrong spot sorry.
Deletei use both old and new, as improvements are made new ui becomes faster to use, however the glitches are still there so i tend to flip back to old, big glitch at the moment is daily bonus, our older realms do not have new ui and im unable to collect in old format
ReplyDeleteDanella, we would LOVE to hear what exactly you dont like or are missing in the new UI. Please help us make it better. When we ask, we typically get few responses :(
DeleteI have tried the new UI, even forced myself to play a mobile only realm. I don't like it. I am old. I like my old game. But you keep making changes that affect the old game negatively. This latest chat change really stinks. What about realms like 64 that don't have a new UI? They now have no chat. We did not need improved chats, the old worked just fine. We do need the colors on bb coded messages changed back to the old color also. The only way I can now read them is to hit reply and read them there. Please bring back old UI chat and old UI colors.
ReplyDeletePLEASE just bring back the old ui... stop abandoning it for something new and shiny. Not all of us care about the beauty of how things look, we care about being able to operate the game and teach new players to play as well.
DeletePlease don't judge the new desktop UI from your experience on mobile; it is a totally different beast. For realm like 64, with only the old UI, chat will not be an issue. For mixed realms, getting to throne room will allow you full chat access.
DeleteYou want help. Many people are telling you that moving completely away from old ui and excluding the people who prefer it is wrong. Some have mentioned mobile, but thats not the focus here. Nor are people judging the new UI to from the mobile version. We are here talking about the issue of new ui being forced on people.
Delete"moving completely away from old ui and excluding the people who prefer it is wrong" Yes, that comes out loud and clear so, I hope this is clear, we are not doing this. If chat is a problem, please just open throne room
DeleteGreg, What Wandering has said and others is true. If you guys checked out the realm chats on a regular basis you would know this already. Most do not like the New UIL, I don't know anyone that likes the new chat and almost all go to the old ui to attack. It is common knowledge among the players. People are quitting the game for these reasons and if not addressed many more will follow.
ReplyDeleteMira, we want to do everything in our power to ensure that the new, modern UI is feature full. If attacking is messed up in some way, tell us how please so that we can fix it.
DeleteThe New Modern UIL, is just not user friendly. I don't really like anything about it. I also know many who feel the same way. They have from the start, and have been complaining about it since day one in the realms.
DeleteYes, I concure w/ what Mira has said. We are trying to help though you see it as not that Greg. Please give us a chance. We arent' a lynch mob as I said else where. Nor am I a lynch mob leader encouraging you to post this blog. Sorry I replied out of order to things, but this is all true whats being said by me, others, please hear us out. Don't continue to ignore your founding customers pleas.
DeleteDaily bonus is now not working in old UI
ReplyDeleteFor features such as this, we hope it is reasonable to ask you to switch to the new UI and collect your reward. It takes literally 7 seconds to do. If you cannot for some reason, contact support and we will help you
DeletePS - but to be clear, we were not aware of it being broken. the bug has been logged and will be dealt with
DeleteIssues has been fixed today
Delete"It is not a UI that we will be showing to new players as our numbers are very clear - new players prefer the new UI."
ReplyDeleteHow can you say that, with a straight face.....will not show ,,,,, but #'s are clear.....new players prefer new UI?? So you showed to what , 10 people and 6 liked new UI so its clear.....??? You are playing word games, and tell me a year from now how many new players will be returning players.... It is sad the way you are phasing out the players that supported you all this time.
Elric Kin Slayer
There isn't a LIKE Button for the posts on this blog. Its a shame, I'd double like this statement.
DeleteMy thoughts exactly George so far from what I've seen in response to people trying to actually share their opinions w/ him. Word games aren't getting things anywhere but upsetting people who are disliking the fact us players who put this game where it is are just being blown off. I seen multiple posts from long term players reading this blog disgusted by the replies so far. Trying to breeze past the negative feedback and say new ui is still the way to go when he was almost begging us to share and give input since "they can't get any usually".
This is very discouraging for people like myself who have been playing since realm 2 or longer.
I am not sure what you are saying George... Yes, all our metrics point to one and one direction - new UI is preferred by new players. I am sorry if you think i am phrasing this in a bad way, it is not my intention... I am simply saying that we will not be giving new players a choice between UIs as this is just a very bad idea, period. Having to learn one UI is hard enough. We see no benefit in introducing new players to the old UI. I am not sure what is so negative in this that you take offence to...
DeleteI really don't get it I guess.... you guys who want the old UI, have the old UI. I don't understand the problem... if chat is an issue, then I am sorry, you have to open throne room to access it, is that really do terrible ?
You don`t get it, but I understand perfectly what he is trying to say here.
DeleteIf 2 versions exist, and you show them only 1, then ofcourse that one will be the prefered one!
If the chat was the issue, it`s just opening a new tab and everything is great again ??
For me that would mean another tab to keep track of...
Who would like and think that is practical?
So how many of the new players will be returning customers, that`s what you guys are betting for here!
"If 2 versions exist, and you show them only 1, then ofcourse that one will be the prefered one! "
Delete>> understand, but this is not what we do and not what i am basing my conviction on
"For me that would mean another tab to keep track of... "
>> Sorry, we cannot support chat inside the game window in old UI, it is not possible. some kind of a popup window will be necessar
The BB coded orange type colour highlighting vills is simply not readable. Please refer back to the original format pls
ReplyDeleteI cant understand any of the icons of the new IU. They don't make sense to me
ReplyDeleteI can understand that a lot of time and effort has gone into this new format but its simply not user friendly compared to the old one. Try having a poll if you do not believe us
ReplyDeleteLong time issue thats been up for fix for a while according to replies from TheRedHearld in the Discussion Boards.
DeleteWhat is your feelings towards the new ui Martina? How do you view it? Thats what we are also addressing here and we'd all love to hear every ones input. :)
Sorry Martina, I will see if we could have a "where things are in the new UI" video created; we can see if this helps
DeleteI dearly hope you stop over looking peoples opinions when you asked for them. You said you never really got feed back, now your getting it, lets try to utilize it. We are trying to help. Having the option to play either, let you be a new or old players should not matter. It should still be an option. And if your going to make new additions to the new ui thats all fine and dandy. Lets just do so where your not killing features in the old ui along w/ it. AKA the chat issues you have resolved. Though the old ui and new ui can't intermingle. Which is still entirely possible if given some thought. W/o nearly the load time issues being stated.
ReplyDeleteAnd please Greg, dont view me as a leader of a lynch mob. I'm just sharing my opinions, you may not of asked for them all. But putting a blog to air grievances then playing word games w/ players who have been playing this game for 7+ years is pretty bad. Lets try to use both ui's to their full potential. If a new player would like to learn the game from a "Vet" let them have the option, if not, your robbing them of a great learning experience and potential for more likely returning players/customers. If people prefer the new ui more power to them. Lets just make it possible that it isn't ruining the old ui or completely being force fed to people who dont care for the new ui.
I agree w/ your comment regarding logging in once a day to do servant rescue isn't much a hassle. And such other things. But lets get real. Ruining something to build something else is counter productive even when you consider the old ui to be out dated and not useful/user friendly.
"I dearly hope you stop over looking peoples opinions when you asked for them"
ReplyDelete>> I do not, but I find a lot of it confusing. I find it difficult to believe, that you are unwilling to open Throne Room to access the chat, and would rather we spend, what will likely be 4 weeks worth of work, to attempt to unity the two chat systems, and likely fail.
I am honestly willing to do all in my power to accommodate your requests, but I cannot simply roll back the new chat.
"Having the option to play either, let you be a new or old players should not matter." >> We will never send new players to the old UI. I understand you like it, but new players, coming from the new UI, woudl find it as confusing, if not more, as you find the new UI.
"not killing features in the old ui along w/ it. AKA the chat (...) Though the old ui and new ui can't intermingle. Which is still entirely possible if given some thought."
>> As I said above, if you want us to spend a month of work, unifying old and new chat, because you are unwilling to open another tab for the chat in the Throne Room, then I think you are not being fair here. We could spend all this time, and likely result in a solution that you will reject because it will increase load time. There is NO WAY we could support the chat right inside the page as it was before in old UI because it is stateless. The best we could do, is that you woudl need to launch it in another window. Which is pretty much the same as opening the Throne Room. Please, honestly, tell me - is it really so difficult to open the throne room for chat>
" As I said above, if you want us to spend a month of work, unifying old and new chat, because you are unwilling to open another tab for the chat in the Throne Room, then I think you are not being fair here." The bottom line of what I am hearing you say Greg is this--- We are phasing out the old UI, You either adapt to the new UI or not. Well, you forget this game is mostly older players, we liked the simplicity of the old UI, that is why we play and spend money. The new one is just too busy, younger players might like it better, I don't know, but I do know that they are not gonna spend much money here. If they get money they play Call Of Duty, or something like that. You are phasing out the very players who spend in this game. Not very smart in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI Couldnt have said it better myself this is maybe a gross generalization but its not so easy for the older ppl who play the game in their retirement or whatever too learn new things when it come too technology its a shame they didnt ask players who matter if it was worth changing too new chat and killing off old ui for new players
DeleteThe only solution is too make an old ui realm every round of realms and it just wont have any of the updates. If everythiing is already set up i cant see it being a problem otherwise u will lose a good bit of cash flow from the leaving players i assume.
"The bottom line of what I am hearing you say Greg is this--- We are phasing out the old UI,"
DeleteNOT AT ALL. you can play in the old UI. For chat, you have to open another tab with Throne Room. Throne Room is not the new UI, and it is not busy. I do not see how asking you to open Throne Room is phasing out the old UI
I am not trying to be rude, I am in fact trying to be understanding. You put alot of work into the NEW UI, and it must really suck that most are not pleased with it, I get that. But, You really are not listing to what we are saying, Your response to everything is, we will make the NEW UI better, tell us how. WHAT we ARE telling you is WE don't like the NEW UI, period. I get you don't want to hear that, but it is the truth.
ReplyDeleteWell, most people do like the new UI. Of course, there are some, like you guys, who do not like it. I understand that and that is why we are not removing it.
DeleteBut yes, old UI will not be getting all new updates. This we have been saying from the beginning - we are not killing it, but it will get limited updated.
And yes, we do want to make the new UI better, we want to add features that are missing, we want to fix bugs - is that wrong?
Now, if you simply refuse to play on it, and want the old one, that's fine. This is why we are keeping it.
Chat is one of those new features that we cannot *embed* in the old UI. However, knowing that you might not want to use the new UI, we made it accessible via the Throne Room which you can keep open in a tab - you dont need another browser.
Things change and must change. If you cannot compromise a tiny bit, by accessing the Throne Room to use the chat, then I am not sure that there is anything I can do, because if by some miracle, we did embed the chat in old UI, there would be some differences and I worry if those would be accepted. Please - try the new chat in the Throne Room. I am hoping this is a resonable request
Ellcrys lvl 270 Grand Dame (13:52)
ReplyDeleteit just started working again! that horrible place is bad for my computer
G3 lvl 341 Viscount (12:55)
Ellcrys - you have to go to new UI - that horrible place - to accept the daily bonus :(
You do not need to go to the new UI for the chat, just so that we are clear
DeleteWhy do you think most people like the new UI? I have not heard anyone say they like it . Some are using it, because they feel as they have not been given a choice, but they only chat there, they go back to the old UI to do things. Are you that out of touch with the players? Do you guys not monitor the realm chats? If you did you would know most do not like the new UI. I feel like we are talking to a brick wall.
ReplyDelete"Why do you think most people like the new UI?"
Delete>> Because all our metrics confirm that. Retention test where we send player to new vs old chat, round robin were very conclusive.
"Are you that out of touch with the players"
>> I hope not :) The information I am getting, is that while there are players like you guys, there are others who like the new UI, like the new chat, like new updates on regular basis etc
Wild_Fire lvl 480 Marquess (21:41)
ReplyDeleteThe chat that was iun the Throne Room Sucks
Lol Just look at the clan chat in old ui the pics you just posted greg they are complaining about the new set up in the game.
ReplyDeleteIf that doesnt say it nothing will as all the realms have the exact same thing in the chat
Sure, and who talks in the old chat? You guys. If you did not dislike the new UI, you would use it. So you are a distilled group of players who do not like the new UI. Nothing surprising here.
DeleteNothing wrong with you guys not liking the new UI, no one is forcing you to use it
LMAO, it is in all the chats. Even the New ones People are only using it to chat, lol, your funny Greg.
ReplyDeleteMira, what are we talking about here? new UI or new chat? Those are two different things. New chat is not going anywhere. The may be bugs, new chat ui may be not intuitive enough, there maybe features missing etc. We will fix the bugs, we will add the missing features as we are already doing, and we will adjust the ui to make it more intuitive.
DeleteI am talking about the fact people, not just us here by far, don't like the new UI, the new chat, it just sent people over the edge. Yes, we go to new chat to talk, cause we have to. We go to old UI to play the game. I have played since r3, I know alot of players by now, I don't know of anyone who likes the new UI, like I said many times, we only use the new UI to chat and that is because we have to!
ReplyDeleteVery simple so you under stand I hate the new IU and it is very confusing. The game now for players to try and claim is also very confusing as their are two and they do not work together. I have had more player crossfres and run overs. Do we old UI user matter to you Dev seem's we do not
ReplyDeleteWe go to great lengths to get feedback from our vets with multiple blog post, suggestions section just for you guys, but such comments, certainly do not help us change anything. If you refuse to tells us what to change/improve...not much we can do :(
Delete